To keep or not to keep?

[elly's mom]

We own a female AKC Labrador Retriever named Elly and we are planning on breeding her with my mom's best friend's AKC Labrador Retriever name King Duke when Elly goes into heat this year. I've got some comments already from other boards saying not the add to the population of shelter dogs. But I want you guys to know that we are responsible and will not be breeding mixed breed or mutt dogs. We aren't sure if we want to keep a puppy from the litter or not...? We live on 3 acres and I play with the dog all the time... almost all day. So... should we keep a puppy or not?

[luvofallhorses]

WHY are you planning on breeding her??? :(

[wolfsoul]

I'm keeping a puppy from my dog's first litter. It really depends on if you have the time, energy, and money to have another puppy.

I hope that both dogs have the proper health certifications and both pedigrees have been reaearched. Have you taken into account the risks of pregnancy/whelping? Does your dog participate in any sports?

[Alysser]

I hope that both dogs have the proper health certifications and both pedigrees have been reaearched. Have you taken into account the risks of pregnancy/whelping? Does your dog participate in any sports?

I agree. And do you have enough money for breeding?

[chocolatecoffee]

And do you have enough money for breeding?

Like Maltese_Love said, breeding can be very expensive. Even if there aren't any unforeseen problems (such as the mother needing a caesarean section, which can cost $500 or even more). Some puppies might be still-born or die shortly after birth and the mother is also at risk of dying during birth, as well as from various cancers which can virtually be eliminated by spaying.

With 25 to 30 percent of dogs in shelters being purebred according to the Humane Society of the United States, dogs have to have much more than being purebred to be bred. They have to be perfect specimens of their breed, including being free of genetic, psychological, or physiological defects, and all of that testing costs money. I don't show or breed, however I've read that showing a dog to championship can cost upwards of $1800. There is then a stud fee, and when the pups are born they have to go to the vet many times. They need vaccinations, they need to be de-wormed, and the breeder is responsible for the costs of registering each individual dog with the AKC and for the transfer of ownership papers.

Elly sounds like she has a great home who really cares about her, and there are many dogs who are in need of such a great home, especially Labs. There are over 13,000 Labs for adoption on Petfinder alone, which is MUCH more than any other breed, and many of them purebred, if you might want another pup, would you be interested in adopting one of those cuties instead of making more unwanted puppies (statistics say that less than one in four puppies stay in their first home)?

I hope you consider what we've said with an open mind, since you're looking on boards you really must want what's best for your little girl :).

ETA:

Neutered animals generally live longer, happier lives. Not only do they have less of a tendency to roam, spaying dramatically reduces the risk of contracting uterine infections, mammory tumours, and breast cancer. In fact, the chances of breast cancer in female dogs increases significantly with each successive heat. :(

[elly's mom]

Thanks everyone for the help, I will be sure to discuss these posts with my parents. Elly doesn't participate in any sports although I may start showing her in AKC Junior Showmanship. She is registered with AKC but not sure about the health certificate :confused: I don't think anybody in my family noticed how much breeding could cost. I will definetly discuss the costs with them, although I think we have enough money and they may have already considered this stuff. We have time and the money for the puppy, though. Is this making a bad reputation for me because I'm feeling it is... :confused: To tell you the truth, luvofallhorses, I really dont know why we are breeding her... :confused: It's my step-dad's dog and he wants to breed her.

[Giselle]

The question should be more like: To breed or not to breed.

If you'd like to breed Elly the "proper" way, get her genetically tested and make sure she passes those tests. Labs are VERY prone to hip dysplasia so you'll have to get her OFA'd and/or PennHip'd. You'll also need to check those eyes since Labs are prone to PRA as well, so you'll need to get her CERF'd as well.

Does she have good conformation? The best way to tell is to champion her in the conformation ring. This doesn't mean, "Oh yeah, she's a beautiful dog and her puppies will be, too". This means putting your time and effort into entering her into local AKC-sanctioned shows and earning two majors on her and getting that championship. Who bred Elly? You'll need to get back in touch with Elly's original breeder so they can help you and your pup during this long difficult road.

As well, I'm not sure if your friend's AKC Labrador qualifies as a good stud. What does he have to offer the Labrador breed? As was mentioned before, Labs are the NUMBER 1 most popular breed in the AKC, meaning there are tens of thousands of Labs/mixes languishing in shelters to this day. Is he a champion in the ring? If not, is he skilled or championed in the field? Just because he has good drive or he looks pretty to you doesn't mean much unless he is proven in either the ring/field. Has he been tested for dysplastic hips? What about his thyroid? What about his eyes? What about his patellas? What about his parents' hips, eyes, hearts, and thyroids? What about his grandparents'? This is very important as genetic maladies often skip generations, so you'll need to study the pedigree of both Elly and Duke VERY diligantly.

Lastly, just because you're not breeding mixed breeds doesn't mean that you're not contributing to the overflow of dogs in shelters. A BYB doesn't breed just mixes. There are plenty of BYB's who breed purebred dogs. Breeding purebred Labs does not exempt you from anything. I hope you'll listen to us and the boards before and spay your dog or breed the *right* way. If we're all saying the same things, there is a reason why ;)

Edit to add: If Elly is your step-dad's dog, try to explain to him why NOT to breed. As for health testing, visit these sites:
http://www.offa.org/
http://www.pennhip.org/
http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html

You *need* to get these tests done on Elly and Duke. Otherwise, consider spaying her and adopting a needy Lab puppy from a nearby shelter :)

[chocolatecoffee]

Is this making a bad reputation for me because I'm feeling it is...

Hey, of course not! There's nothing at all wrong with not knowing, the thing that gets you a good reputation is when you make an effort to become educated (like you are) and take appropriate steps when you find that knowledge. When I got Mocha (my first little pup) we had a family friend that bred and I thought, "Oh, it would be so adorable to have a bunch of little Mocha's running around!", so I looked into it and realized how very wrong I was and got her spayed as soon as she was old enough (which, I now realize is as young as 8 weeks!). I got her from a backyard breeder before I knew better also, and of course he didn't spend the money to spay or neuter the pups - another expense. Since then, I've learned from my mistakes, have rescued my other two dogs, and am very involved with rescue. It's a very rewarding experience!

Sometimes when you're young it's hard to get your parents to listen to you when they have their mind made up, but don't give up! I talked my parents into fostering and sooner or later, it really does work :p!

It definitely sounds like you have given Elly an incredible home and, if you have the time and money and want to hear that little patter of feet around your house, a rescue dog would love your home :D. If your family decides that they do want another dog, I'm sure all of us here would be more than happy to help you find another dog from a reputable source!

Please don't get your spirits down, people aren't born knowing all of this and they only way they find out about everything, including the huge pet overpopulation problem which results with over 5 million homeless dogs being euthanized in the United States alone, is by becoming educated, just like how you're doing!

Please keep us updated! :)

[Corinna]

If you do breed I would not keep a pup as the mom would be more dominate and pups don't reach their full potentioal.
We here on this board are a lot of rescue pet owners so we tend to get a bit touchy about small pet breeding. I have 3 rescued dogs now . I drove 4300 miles to get one of them that a pet talker had saved.I would not choose to breed (parents raised and showed springers when i was a kid ) never made any money at it actually lost most of the time.

[Lori Jordan]

Good luck with the Breeding,Make sure you consider everything before doing this it is a big responsibility,and some people arnt ready for that at any time!

[Kfamr]

IMHO, your family doesn't seem to knowledgable on breeding. Please print out, or show them this thread. They really have a lot more to learn about breeding the safe and proper way.

[zoomer]

IMHO, your family doesn't seem to knowledgable on breeding. Please print out, or show them this thread. They really have a lot more to learn about breeding the safe and proper way.

I strongly agree with Kay

[BitsyNaceyDog]

IMHO, your family doesn't seem to knowledgable on breeding. Please print out, or show them this thread. They really have a lot more to learn about breeding the safe and proper way.

I also agree.

[lute]

IMHO, your family doesn't seem to knowledgable on breeding. Please print out, or show them this thread. They really have a lot more to learn about breeding the safe and proper way.

i also agree!

i personally don't think you should breed her. even though she is AKC registered doesn't mean you have to breed her. it just means she's purebred. it doesn't mean she's well bred. is she up to the breed standard? you can find a copy of the breed standard on AKC.org. i hope your parents understand the HUGE resposability it is to have a litter of puppies. do your research on all the time and money it takes to breed a litter. honestly in the end you don't make a profit. you end up spending a great deal of money.

also, there are a rediculous amount of labs in shelters. a great deal of them get killed simply because there are no homes available for them. after working at a humane society for some time i have witnessed many PRUEBRED labs being killed for this very reason. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't breed your dog!

[dab_20]

I agree w/ everyone above. Just because you want to breed your dog for the heck of it, or you just like puppies around WHY breed? Go get a puppy at a shelter if you want one. PLEASE DON'T BREED!!!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Please don't breed your dog! There are WAY to many Labrador Retrievers already out there, we DO NOT need anymore.

[bckrazy]

Please don't breed your dog! There are WAY to many Labrador Retrievers already out there, we DO NOT need anymore.

I second that! Every time I visit any shelter (which is often), the vast majority of dogs that I see are Labs or Pits. Most are purebred Labs!

IF you are breeding, I suggest you show Elly and compete in field trials (to prove her hunting abiltiy, as you should never breed a working dog that cannot work), THEN think about breeding. You will also need to health test her extensively, one of the reasons a huge percentage of Labs have congenital health defects (hip/elbow dysplasia, etc etc) is because so so many backyard breeders are breeding carriers of these defects. THEN you need to find her a stud who has also been shown and trialed and proven to be a superb example of his breed, along with passing his health tests, a stud of this nature will cost around $1000. Honestly, you need to print out as much about overpopulation, good breeding practices (which includes exhibiting your dog and health testing them), and whether your parents are willing to do this. Ask if you can volunteer at your local shelter, to get the real picture of just how many PUREBRED Labs from backyard breeders are being euthanized every single day. I know you're a kid, I am too, but I also know for a fact that after talking to them so much my parents would never dream of breeding dogs, they leave that to professionals who dedicate their lives to it.

I know it sounds like we're all lecturing, but I totally respect you for actually putting thought into this instead of breeding now and thinking later! It probably seems to you like breeding one litter will be ok, but what about those puppies? If you don't sell them on spay/neuter contracts, how many puppies will they be spewing into this world? And their puppies puppies? You need to think about that, and think about if breeding your dog is worth putting her and her future puppies through that danger. What if they all turned out to be painfully dysplastic at a young age, and you were sued by the owners? It HAS happened! So many horrible situations can arise, which will be immediately avoided by spaying.

I think, if you talk to your parents with a lot of concern and responsibility, if they have sense they will listen to what you have to say. :)

[elly's mom]

Is this giving me a bad reputation? I don't see why if it is...

This is not my choice and no matter how much I try and convience Bob he won't listen to me! What are the chances of him listening to me? 0%! I'll keep on trying but the doubts are high!

I know there are many... many Labradors at shelters but those dogs were not responsibly bred or have AKC papers, do they? These puppies will and Bob is responsible and will do anything for Elly.

I know you guys are just trying to help me but it is getting a little pushy towards me. And it shouldn't be, it should be towards my step-dad....

[dab_20]

Is this giving me a bad reputation? I don't see why if it is...

This is not my choice and no matter how much I try and convience Bob he won't listen to me! What are the chances of him listening to me? 0%! I'll keep on trying but the doubts are high!

I know there are many... many Labradors at shelters but those dogs were not responsibly bred or have AKC papers, do they? These puppies will and Bob is responsible and will do anything for Elly.

I know you guys are just trying to help me but it is getting a little pushy towards me. And it shouldn't be, it should be towards my step-dad....

Some of those dogs DO have AKC papers. And just because your dog is AKC registered and you care about her doesn't mean you are breeding her responsibly. You have to get a bunch of health tests and your dog has to fit perfectly in the breed standered. No you don't have a bad reputation, because you don't have control over this situation, but we are telling you this so you know better then your step dad in the future.

[zoomer]

Is this giving me a bad reputation? I don't see why if it is...

This is not my choice and no matter how much I try and convience Bob he won't listen to me! What are the chances of him listening to me? 0%! I'll keep on trying but the doubts are high!

I know there are many... many Labradors at shelters but those dogs were not responsibly bred or have AKC papers, do they? These puppies will and Bob is responsible and will do anything for Elly.

I know you guys are just trying to help me but it is getting a little pushy towards me. And it shouldn't be, it should be towards my step-dad....

NOBODY is trying to be 'pushy' Amanda. Breeding is not a good topic here and I knew from the start this thread was going to make some trouble. No one wants you to breed Elly because there are plenty of other Labs in the shelters, puppies, AKC registered dogs, health certified dogs, and your adding to the population. What if you can't find homes for them all and they end up in the pound or as strays? Breeding costs a lot of money and you guys may not have the money for it. A c-section may be needed, or the puppies, and possibly the mother may die!!

[Vela]

I realize you don't have control over the situation, and I know nobody was intentionally trying to upset you or make you feel bad. It's just so sad to us when we see so many dogs dying every day, even full blooded dogs with AKC papers. If you can't convince your step-dad, then there is really nothing you can do and that isn't your fault, but please try to take this information you see with you for the future so that when you are a pet owner you can make the best decisions for your own dogs. Just because a dog has AKC papers doesn't mean they are a good specimen to be bred. LOTS of dogs with AKC papers are bred by "back yard breeders" and people rarely do the appropriate health testing to make sure they aren't passing on genetic traits that you can't see, such as dysplasia, heart problems, etc. A vet looking at a dog and saying sure, it's healthy go ahed and breed isn't the same thing. Don't take this as a personal attack, just take the knowledge and save it away so when you are the person who can make the decisions you can make the best ones. Your step-dad is doing the wrong thing if he isn't doing it to better the breed, adequate health testing, etc etc. AKC papers don't mean much. If you can, go to the shelter, look on petfinder, see all of the dogs with papers that probably won't find homes..there are just too many, and that doesn't even count all of those without them. I hope you can see past the frustration you are feeling at the responses and realize why people are making them, and it's definintely not an attack against you. Good luck!

[abbersmom]

Nothing against you here...We're just offering advice & realize that it is your step-dad wanting to breed the dog...
That said...
Yes. Many dogs in shelters are pure bred dogs with papers...

Here's some statistics on how quickly jut ONE mother dog can produce a LOT of offspring:
A male or female dog of breeding age can produce an average of 6 puppies twice a year (12 total). Those 12 pups could potentially produce a total of 144 more puppies by the following year. Those 144 puppies could potentially produce 1,728 more puppies by the year after that. And so on and so on. Do the math. The numbers are astronomical. Every owner who makes the responsible and vital choice to spay or neuter will ultimately save thousands of lives.

Hard to imagine in just a couple years how many puppies those puppies can have...THAT'S how we end up with all those shelter dogs...

Good luck in whatever your step dad chooses to do...you seem to be a person that truly cares & loves animals! you're making the best first step by asking questions... :)

And by the way, welcome to the site, hope you enjoy it here!

[dab_20]

Very well said everyone above me. :) I'd just like to add again, that it seems like you do want to do what's best for your dog, but you don't have control over breeding her. I wish her and the pups the best. And btw, Welcome to PT! I'd love to see pictures of your beautiful girl.