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papbouv
03-07-2006, 06:44 AM
Please do not give your little girl Greenies watched a video of the guy that founded Greenies he says only 40 dogs have died from eating Greenies and that is OK do to the fact millions of Greenies have been sold. He also said it was the owners fault for not getting the right size Greenies for their dogs?According to the video all the dogs that died they found Greenies caused a blockage and the dogs died a terrible death most owners are suing Greenies.In my opinion the guy was a jerk even if one dog died they should be taken off the market until they are completely digestible like it says on the package evidently they are not completely digestible.
Penny is very cute keep her safe.
papbouv

Dot
03-07-2006, 11:23 AM
I agree! My neice asked her vet about it, and he said he has operated on 3 dogs in the past year that had blockages from Greenies. One of them died.

See the information here:

http://www.kirotv.com/money/5325021/detail.html

Kfamr
03-07-2006, 01:37 PM
This is not directed towards the original poster, but it is my opinion in general about the whole Greenies subject.

Greenies, just like EVERY OTHER DOG CHEW, need to be supervised while chewing. They have the same risk that rawhides, nylabones, pig ears, etc, etc have. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions instead of taking the American way out and suing the big companies.

Greenies' bag also states;
"As with any edible product, monitor your dog to ensure the treat is adequately chewed. Gulping any item can be harmful or even fatal to a dog."

When purchasing, you should read the bag and you would be aware of such instances. YES, Greenies can be harmful! If your dog is an intense chewer or gulper, obviously soft and incredibly tasty treats that will make that urge stronger aren't for them!


Out of the millions of Greenies chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of rawhides chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of candies eaten by children - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of hot coffees served daily - there are only a few cases.

This goes for the people trying to go after the rope tug-of-war companies because their dogs tore the strings and died from it. DUH.

Common Sense..... something this world seems to be lacking now-a-days.

My dogs get Greenies every now and then as a special treat and you're darn right I'm on the floor watching their every bite - same thing with toys! If you don't have the time to supervise your animals with chews and toys, then you shouldn't give them.

jackie
03-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Common Sense..... something this world seems to be lacking now-a-days.

I agree 110%.

P.S. All my pups just had their greenies about an hour ago.

Daisy and Delilah
03-07-2006, 01:53 PM
I would personally be interested in seeing the stats on dog surgeries related to rawhide/rawhide type products, denta stix and the like, pig ears, etc. etc. I think Greenies is getting an awfully bad rap all of a sudden from all sides. I have never had any problems with them and my chis. Like Kay said, I never leave them alone or give them pieces that might lodge in their throats or anywhere else. I really believe that anything can be a danger if not used properly. It never ceases to amaze me how the American public takes off running from hearsay so easily :(

Well said Kay and thanks for posting. :)

Lady's Human
03-07-2006, 03:03 PM
It's not Hearsay, it's been reported by CNN and the mass market news media! It MUST be true!

Pam
03-07-2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks Kay for a responsible post on the subject. My dogs would probably sell their souls for a greenie. That said, I supervise them while they are chewing anything so I assume the responsibility. My heart goes out to those who have lost dogs. I just can't imagine the guilt. I will continue to give my two greenies but, as before, on special occasions and with a watchful eye.

IRescue452
03-07-2006, 03:27 PM
Some time ago there was a post that Hilary Clinton wanted to ban all hard candy. She was looking at two specific cases of children dying. She did not take into account that somebody in the world has choked and died on just about every piece of food on the market. People drown daily in water. What are we going to do, ban everything. The same thing goes for dog toys and chews. Have some logic people, thats all I ask of you. Ban the people who don't supervise their animals from ownership!

CathyBogart
03-07-2006, 03:28 PM
Ditto what Kay and Pam said - My two love greenies, but they only get them when I can be there to watch them eat 'em and make sure they don't just get gulped down.

Daisy and Delilah
03-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Thanks for pointing that out Lady's Human. Sorry. I posted very hastily as I was leaving for work. With using the word "hearsay" I needed more of an explanation to exactly what I meant :)
I understand it's definitely no longer hearsay and I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone here at PT(just to clear that up) :)

My Peanuts
03-07-2006, 05:51 PM
This is not directed towards the original poster, but it is my opinion in general about the whole Greenies subject.

Greenies, just like EVERY OTHER DOG CHEW, need to be supervised while chewing. They have the same risk that rawhides, nylabones, pig ears, etc, etc have. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions instead of taking the American way out and suing the big companies.

Greenies' bag also states;
"As with any edible product, monitor your dog to ensure the treat is adequately chewed. Gulping any item can be harmful or even fatal to a dog."

When purchasing, you should read the bag and you would be aware of such instances. YES, Greenies can be harmful! If your dog is an intense chewer or gulper, obviously soft and incredibly tasty treats that will make that urge stronger aren't for them!


Out of the millions of Greenies chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of rawhides chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of candies eaten by children - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of hot coffees served daily - there are only a few cases.

This goes for the people trying to go after the rope tug-of-war companies because their dogs tore the strings and died from it. DUH.

Common Sense..... something this world seems to be lacking now-a-days.

My dogs get Greenies every now and then as a special treat and you're darn right I'm on the floor watching their every bite - same thing with toys! If you don't have the time to supervise your animals with chews and toys, then you shouldn't give them.

I agree to an extent. Greenies don't break up in the system like other chews. A rawhide will become soft, but a Greenie will not. One vet they interviewed said that the Greenie was stuck in the dogs throat for over a day (the dog was still able to breath), but the Greenie was still rock hard. If a rawhide was stuck it would have been mush in that amount of time. Digestion for dogs and humans starts in the mouth with saliva. If you put a piece of cracker on your tongue and don't chew it, you can feel your saliva breaking it down. Saliva does not break down a Greenie.

RB Angie had Greenies shortly before her death. It was the one and only time she had it. I don't think the Greenie had anything to do with it, but I'm not taking any chances with my guys now. Accidents happen and people do need to take responsibility for there actions more; I do agree with that.
I watch my dogs very closely, but Greenies will never pass their lips.

Vela
03-07-2006, 05:56 PM
Rawhide is actually extremely undigestible and actually poses more of a danger risk of getting lodged in the throat or intestines. I don't give my dogs anything but bully sticks and raw bones to chew on. I don't think there is enough benefit in those other types of chews for my dogs to outwiegh the risks involved, not when there are just better options. ANY chew or treat can pose a risk and they should always be watched, but none of those things, except the bully sticks and bones, are worth bothering with for me.

lizbud
03-07-2006, 06:09 PM
I agree to an extent. Greenies don't break up in the system like other chews. A rawhide will become soft, but a Greenie will not. One vet they interviewed said that the Greenie was stuck in the dogs throat for over a day (the dog was still able to breath), but the Greenie was still rock hard. If a rawhide was stuck it would have been mush in that amount of time. Digestion for dogs and humans starts in the mouth with saliva. If you put a piece of cracker on your tongue and don't chew it, you can feel your saliva breaking it down. Saliva does not break down a Greenie.




This is the primary reason I don't give my pups Greenies.I think every
body should read all they can about this & make their own decision about
it. Just too many chemicals involved in manufactoring this product & I
don't feel comfortable about giving them.

Lady's Human
03-07-2006, 07:06 PM
First, my original post was pure sarcasm. I know, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the web, but if CNN and Fox actually spent equal time running stories and posting corrections, they wouldn't have room for anything new. They make mistakes and flat out fabricate dangerous product stories (GM trucks anyone? ) to make ratings.

Second, a greenie stuck in a dogs throat over a day (one, where was the owner, two, why did treatment take so long) would not be subject to digestive juices, just the mucus in the throat, which is not part of the digestive process. When greenies are properly chewed by the dog, they are probably 100% digestable material. As an example from human food, if you just swallow a gummi bear without chewing, it will pass through your system relatively undigested, as your teeth didn't break the wax coating they put on them. There are many other coated foods that this holds true for.

Alysser
03-07-2006, 07:14 PM
Kay, thanks for that post. My dog is NOT allowed to eat anything without supervision. It's a rule in my house.

Daisy and Delilah
03-07-2006, 10:19 PM
;)

My Peanuts
03-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Second, a greenie stuck in a dogs throat over a day (one, where was the owner, two, why did treatment take so long) would not be subject to digestive juices, just the mucus in the throat, which is not part of the digestive process. When greenies are properly chewed by the dog, they are probably 100% digestable material. As an example from human food, if you just swallow a gummi bear without chewing, it will pass through your system relatively undigested, as your teeth didn't break the wax coating they put on them. There are many other coated foods that this holds true for.

I don't mean to argue, but digestion begins as soon as a piece of food enters the mouth. There are enzymes in saliva that begin to break down edible things. Numerous AP biology classes in high school and nutrition classes in college have taught me that. You are right that the stomach's acids are not breaking down the greenie stuck in a dog’s throat, but the saliva and mucus would start the process. Think of it this way... When a dog chews a rawhide it becomes very mushy, but if you leave it out in the rain it does not lose its original form. The rain may absorb a little, but not nearly as fast or as effective as a dog's saliva would.

Also, if the news is reporting the truth, greenies don't break down in the system. They simply just pass through the same way a coin would.

I'm not telling people not to give their pups Greenies. I'm just telling you why I won't. It's not worth it for me.

By the way, I have no idea what the pet owner or vet were thinking by letting the greenie stay stuck in the dog’s throat. It is no one I know personally, I saw it on TV.

Lady's Human
03-08-2006, 03:20 PM
You are correct, saliva does contain enzymes that start the breakdown of proteins in food. The process is sped up by chewing. Mucous does not have anything to do with digestion, it is merely a lubricant.

Greenies do break down in the digestive system, but like any other food have to be chewed and broken up for digestion to occur. There are many foods that are untouched by digestion if they are not chewed.

News reports dealing with consumer affairs issues have a tendency to be driven more by sensationalism and ratings than truth. For example, one day coffee is a major cancer killer, the next it's a breakthrough medical miracle. The same has happened with alcohol. Various makes of cars have been named "dangerous" by news reporting at different times. Childrens toys, household appliances, the list is endless. Accuracy doesn't count, sound science doesn't count, all that counts is the rating for the show.

My Peanuts
03-08-2006, 03:32 PM
To be honest, I'm a little wary of new products anyway. After all the pro-heart 6 stuff I stick to the time tested treats/medications when I can.

Kfamr
03-08-2006, 04:16 PM
Dogs should be eating what their wolf ancestors ate.


I suppose you eat the same our ancestors did?


FYI, the longest living dogs I've ever met were fed Kibbles & Bits and scraps their whole lives. Not saying that's right, but your statement isn't necessarily true.


And geez, I really wish someone would tell Kiara that, being a kibble fed dog, she is NOT supposed to be so energetic. :rolleyes:

lizbud
03-08-2006, 04:32 PM
I suppose you eat the same our ancestors did?





I believe we all do eat basically the same as our ancestors did, except
we do cook the meat now. :D

My Peanuts
03-08-2006, 04:32 PM
I suppose you eat the same our ancestors did?


FYI, the longest living dogs I've ever met were fed Kibbles & Bits and scraps their whole lives. Not saying that's right, but your statement isn't necessarily true.


And geez, I really wish someone would tell Kiara that, being a kibble fed dog, she is NOT supposed to be so energetic. :rolleyes:

So true. My childhood dog, Barney, was fed not great food until he was older. I believe he was raised on Top Choice. He was born in 1976 when neutering wasn't really big so he wasn't neutered. Both are things I am an advocate for now. Spay/neuter and nutrition. Well Mr. Barney lived to be 18 years old and other than being diabetic (which we controlled with insulin), he was in pretty good shape considering his age.

binka_nugget
03-08-2006, 04:45 PM
I don't mean to start a war but I thought I'd throw this in..

Dogs are carnivores. Not obligate carnivores, but carnivores none-the-less. There's no denying that their teeth were made for tearing through flesh and eating bones.

But with that said, I can see where you (Kay and Diana) are coming from. The raw diet isn't the end all, be all for health problems. Some dogs do well on raw, some don't. Oh well. Just gotta find what's best for your dog.

dab_20
03-08-2006, 04:56 PM
Greenies are just as dangerous as any other dog chew... so why point out just Greenies? Your dog can choke on anything whether it's a toy or chew or even food. And you have to get the right size for your dog... it says right on the back!

Kfamr
03-08-2006, 05:01 PM
Just gotta find what's best for your dog.



Exactly!

It doesn't mean CCL's or any other person's dog who's going to be fed raw (partially or what have you) is any healthy or better looking than those fed on kibble.

Tollers-n-Dobes
03-08-2006, 05:13 PM
Dogs should be eating what their wolf ancestors ate. Raw meat and raw bones. People that feed raw know that their dogs are healthier than ANY dog fed kibble, it shows in their eyes, coat and teeth. They have higher energy and live longer.


If that were the case, I'd hate to see how much energy Tango would have on a raw diet. I know dogs who are fed raw (ex: Tango's mom) and dogs who are fed kibble (ex: my dogs). Tango & her mom have roughly the same energy level (Tango's a little more active), both of their coats are beautiful, both of them have great teeth etc. Without asking the owner of both dogs what they're being fed, you'd have no clue whether they were eating a raw diet or kibble. I'm not saying that raw is a horrible diet, in fact, when I move out I'd like to possibly switch my dogs to raw but I also see nothing wrong with feeding a quality kibble.

Anyway, back to topic....

I don't give my dogs greenies simply because they're extremely expensive IMO and Tango & Winston don't like them. However, I don't think they're a horrible poduct. Like others have said, you just have to supervise the dog if you're going to give them something such as Greenies, rope toys, rawhide etc.

Kfamr
03-08-2006, 05:36 PM
The point of my posts were, your statements aren't necessarily true. You made it seem like dogs coats, eyes, teeth are only nice being fed a raw diet... and you even said..

"People that feed raw know that their dogs are healthier than ANY dog fed kibble, it shows in their eyes, coat and teeth."

So every raw-fed dog there is, is healthier than my dogs, they eat poison biscuits and KIBBLE... That's basically what you're saying, and if not maybe you're wording yourself wrong.

Lady's Human
03-08-2006, 05:47 PM
Welcome to the church of doggy nutrition, ours is the only way, everyone else is going to hurt their dog. Let us start reading from the book of Raw, chapter one.

Kfamr
03-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Welcome to the church of doggy nutrition, ours is the only way, everyone else is going to hurt their dog. Let us start reading from the book of Raw, chapter one.


Hehe, thank you for bringing some humor into this. :D I knew men were good for something. :confused: :p

Lady's Human
03-08-2006, 06:21 PM
You have made some contradictory and inflammatory statements:


My dog won't be healthy if I feed him Dog Chow, he will be healthy if I feed him premium food.

Followed by:

I too agree to feed only what your dog does best on...

As to what to feed a dog, when I was growing up we got a puppy who had ricketts, fed her what the vet suggested to get her over the ricketts, and for the rest of her life fed her "cheap low grade" kibble, table scraps, and god forbid, bits of chocolate on occassion. This malnourished, abused dog lived to be 14, quite an old age for a dog who was 1/2 Great Dane and started off her life with a nutritional ailment.

And a statement guaranteed to upset people who feed their dog Kibbles'n Bits

"Kibbles 'N Bits is filled with crap and poisonous preservatives. "

I have known plenty of dogs who have been fed kibbles 'n bits, dog chow, etc, who have done fine, had healthy, shiny coats, and lived to be old animals in good health.

When you state your beliefs as the gospel truth, it tends to irritate people. I would suggest choosing words a little more carefully, you'll ruffle less feathers.

Almita
03-08-2006, 06:46 PM
That was uncalled for. There is no point in making me feel like a pile of crap for expressing my beliefs. My post was not meant to make people start to argue, which they always do. I simply typed what I believe. My opinions on topics should never, ever be used to generalize. I never said anyones dog here was unhealthy because they eat kibble. I will feed kibble for gosh sakes. My opinions shouldn't be used to make another opinion or to assume that I think your dogs are sickly.

I said....

"People that feed raw know that their dogs are healthier than ANY dog fed kibble, it shows in their eyes, coat and teeth. They have higher energy and live longer."

Because I do know people who believe this is true. I know people who feed raw and have extremely healthy dogs, much healthier than a dog eating Dog Chow. Now, if we're talking about a super premium dog food, then that IS much healthier than lower grade kibble and IMO is just as good as raw. Innova EVO is a great food, and I would feed it over raw any day.

What I should have said is...

"People that feed raw know that their dogs are healthier than ANY dog fed lower grade kibble, it shows in their eyes, coat and teeth. They have higher energy and live longer.


It was just something to bring humor to the thread....

Crazy-Cat-Lover
03-08-2006, 07:17 PM
It's not humour when he/she was clearly leaning the post towards me. Making me feel like a bag of crap.

I deleted my posts and would appreciate if others would delete the quotes. I feel this is not my place to post, since everytime I do, it turns into a heated conversation.

:)

BitsyNaceyDog
03-08-2006, 07:37 PM
I can't believe this Greenie subject is back again. My dogs love greenies. They don't get them everyday because of the expense, but they do get them. I agree that they are as safe (if not safer) than other chews.

Though this thread isn't about feeding raw, I'll add my opinion on that too. I personally don't believe that just because a wolf chases down, kills, and eats a rabbit that it means pet dogs should be eating raw meat too. Dogs are not savages, they are domesticated pets. (NOTE: I'm not saying a dog who eats raw is a savage, I'm saying wolves are.) I personally am not a fan of feeding raw, it's simply not for me. I'm not going to tell someone who does feed raw that it's wrong, same as I don't need someone telling me that feeding kibble is wrong.

Also for the record, I wouldn't feed Kibbles & Bits, however some dogs do actually do fine on it. My grandma had a lab who lived to be 13, not too bad for a lab. He was a farm dog, he ran in the fields, he drank and played in the creek. He often slept outside at night. He ate kibbles & Bits and table scraps. He was never sick. He started slowing down do to arthritis when he was 12 or 13. My grandma had him put down at 13 because of the arthritis. I'm not saying he wouldn't have done as well or better on a better diet, but it didn't seem to really hurt him at all.

Crazy-Cat-Lover
03-08-2006, 07:40 PM
Oh my, this was too wierd not to post here...

Thursday, March 9, 2006

Gemini Horoscope

Your Thursday Horoscope Nattasha!

A communication breakdown is likely. You will have spoken too soon or too confidently about a matter you know little about. To be quoted on the subject later will be potentially embarrassing.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Kfamr
03-08-2006, 07:58 PM
Very well said, again, Lady's Human. I'm glad someone else is on the same track as me. I thought I was going crazy.

bckrazy
03-10-2006, 04:09 PM
This thread is super old :) but I wanted to add onto the comments about 14+ year-old dogs being fed low-low-grade food, in my experience...

My cousin is a holistic vet tech, and she always talks to me about what I feed, as does my vet. They see loads of dogs coming in and out, living to over 15 years old and being fed the cheapest food feasible. Does this mean they're healthy? No. Their coat is usually falling out in clumps, they're obese they are slow and lethargic, blind, deaf and are constantly ill. Even if it isn't visible, most have been suffering from crippling arthritis for years. And their owners, steadfastly believing that Iams is the most premium food out there, just pump them full of anti-biotics, shots, and put them through multiple surgeries. And my cousins family has a Quarter Horse Ranch where they also breed Pembroke Welsh Corgis - the "grandpa" of many of their dogs is 13, has always been fed raw with carefully limited supplements and shots, and he runs around herding horses and cattle unless he's forced to come inside! Honestly, I think it's kind of crazy to say that a dog that has been eating grains his whole life is 100% healthy at age 15, because that is just so much crud and waste product running through their system and breaking down their body. Thats IMO.

Kfamr
03-10-2006, 04:14 PM
I didn't mean being fed low-quality food made them healthier, it was more-so the fact that CCL (I guess you can't see the whole conversation now as she deleted her posts * gosh I love the forum i'm on where they don't allow that LOL) said that RAW fed dogs lived LONGER lives, when my next-door neighbor's Cocker and Mutt were fed and are fed Kibbles N Bits - the Mutt lived until 16 and was healthy in every state other that she died from cancer...Her every step was as bouncy as it was when she was a pup. The Cocker is now around 12 years, nice coat, perfect weight for his build, etc. Which goes back to the statement to feed whatever works for your dog with your budget in consideration.

Mind you, I'd never ever feed my dogs kibbles n bits or refer them to anyone. No way, no how. My dogs are being fed 2 very nice foods right now, IMO.

Karen
03-10-2006, 04:21 PM
The 14+-year-old Great Dane of whom I spoke had a shiny coat and waggy tail until the day she died. Her coat was never dull, nor did it come out in clumps. She did start slipping on the stairs in her last 6 months of life (so my parents carpeted the stairs), but the vet always remarked on how healthy she was until that point.

Lady's Human
03-10-2006, 07:44 PM
Does this mean they're healthy? No. Their coat is usually falling out in clumps, they're obese they are slow and lethargic, blind, deaf and are constantly ill. Even if it isn't visible, most have been suffering from crippling arthritis for years. And their owners, steadfastly believing that Iams is the most premium food out there, just pump them full of anti-biotics, shots, and put them through multiple surgeries.

I think this is a minor exaggeration, as most old dogs I have known have been far, far from this description, and have been fed grocery store kibble for their whole lives. If the dog is doing well on the food, and the vet says the animal is healthy, there's no reason to change. (and in some cases the change can do harm)

dog_pug123
03-10-2006, 08:23 PM
This is not directed towards the original poster, but it is my opinion in general about the whole Greenies subject.

Greenies, just like EVERY OTHER DOG CHEW, need to be supervised while chewing. They have the same risk that rawhides, nylabones, pig ears, etc, etc have. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions instead of taking the American way out and suing the big companies.

Greenies' bag also states;
"As with any edible product, monitor your dog to ensure the treat is adequately chewed. Gulping any item can be harmful or even fatal to a dog."

When purchasing, you should read the bag and you would be aware of such instances. YES, Greenies can be harmful! If your dog is an intense chewer or gulper, obviously soft and incredibly tasty treats that will make that urge stronger aren't for them!


Out of the millions of Greenies chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of rawhides chewed daily - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of candies eaten by children - there are only a few cases.
Out of the millions of hot coffees served daily - there are only a few cases.

This goes for the people trying to go after the rope tug-of-war companies because their dogs tore the strings and died from it. DUH.

Common Sense..... something this world seems to be lacking now-a-days.

My dogs get Greenies every now and then as a special treat and you're darn right I'm on the floor watching their every bite - same thing with toys! If you don't have the time to supervise your animals with chews and toys, then you shouldn't give them.

I absoulutly agree with that. Although, too many may hurt them, only one or a couple daily would rarely hurt them.

Crazy-Cat-Lover
03-11-2006, 02:46 AM
This thread is super old :) but I wanted to add onto the comments about 14+ year-old dogs being fed low-low-grade food, in my experience...

My cousin is a holistic vet tech, and she always talks to me about what I feed, as does my vet. They see loads of dogs coming in and out, living to over 15 years old and being fed the cheapest food feasible. Does this mean they're healthy? No. Their coat is usually falling out in clumps, they're obese they are slow and lethargic, blind, deaf and are constantly ill. Even if it isn't visible, most have been suffering from crippling arthritis for years. And their owners, steadfastly believing that Iams is the most premium food out there, just pump them full of anti-biotics, shots, and put them through multiple surgeries. And my cousins family has a Quarter Horse Ranch where they also breed Pembroke Welsh Corgis - the "grandpa" of many of their dogs is 13, has always been fed raw with carefully limited supplements and shots, and he runs around herding horses and cattle unless he's forced to come inside! Honestly, I think it's kind of crazy to say that a dog that has been eating grains his whole life is 100% healthy at age 15, because that is just so much crud and waste product running through their system and breaking down their body. Thats IMO.

Very well said. I wish I could've explained my post like this. I deleted them because I felt that my opinion caused an argument and this thread was meant for Greenies, not kibble. :)